The Future of Tires?

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G

Ghetto Fab

Spotter Required
Nov 1, 2021
68
Atascadero, Ca
I'm kind of interested to see what peoples thoughts are on the future of offroad tires in the crawling world? In the past 20+yrs I've been wheeling tires have come along way. As I make plans in my head for a new buggy build I keep thinking that I want to future proof it a bit and plan for tires I don't have or don't exist yet. 40s seem to be the new 35 and all the big kids are running 42s. I see mickey thompson offers 43s, 47s, and 54s. With the proliferation of portals right now, and the limits of D60 axle technology have things plateaued out at 42-43" for crawler buggies? Does BFG, Maxxis, Nitto, Milestar have anything coming out that is geared toward the crawler market? Thoughts?

Kevin
 
Much larger than 42-43 creates headaches with packaging, particularly steering limitations. My 42 Milestars are already rubbing links with 45 degree steering, and the latest 50 degree setups would only make that worse. Maneuverability diminishes quickly with tire size and steering limits. You can play with wheel offset, but that creates another issue with scrub radius and steering effectiveness. (minimal issue with full hydro and buggies, but it's still there)

Maintaining the ~85ish outside-of-tire also keeps rigs inside of enclosed trailers :) May be an odd limit to consider, but it's one to consider...

Manufacturing is also challenged....mold limits and production capabilities....I believe Nitto can only produce 100 42's a day, and the factory is dedicated to THAT run....lots of $$$$ and commitment for a relatively small portion of the overall market.

There isn't a tire manuf out there that profits greatly from the big tire market...the bread/butter is in the OEM sizes.
 
I think the 40's are the new 35's is pretty accurate for street driven/ mostly DD rigs and I suspect that's where it's gonna stay. I'm amazed at how many people DD a rig on 40's. To me, that seems about the limit for height and handling, access to get in and out, etc. With 40's most rigs are pushing the limit of fitting through a standard 7' garage door. Not to mention that many states have bumper height laws that make a bigger tire impractical.

For off road, I never pictured going beyond a 39/40" sticky tire but now I'm up to 42". As Woody said, any bigger causes too much trouble. I have 42 reds and 43SX stickies with slightly different back spacing. The 43's are on 4" back spacing which gives a little better turning but just barely fit in my enclosed trailer and just barely rub my lower links. The 42's are on 5" back spacing which gets in the trailer a little better but tend to rub my lower links a little more.

There is no doubt that bigger tires get you over bigger rocks and clear crevice's better but it requires a monster rig that is no longer as light or nimble and will fit in tiny spots as well. Add in that you almost have to go to 40 spline axle shafts to handle a bigger tire, it will become cost restrictive for most users. Not to mention that they will be exceeding the dif capacities as well.
 
I remember back in the day we would put 31s on my what was then my dads blue toyota to go offroading. 35s were considered large and in the extreme realm. Now you can buy a jeep from a dealer with 35s stock and minimal lifting gets you to 37s.

Yes, I have been playing with 45deg steering, 42" tires, and link clearance in solidworks playing around with ideas. Its tight, to say the least!

I'm surprised that BFG came out with a 42" sticky.
 
I was this crazy kid back in the day circa 1981. CJ5 with 38" Gumbo mudders................. on a D25 / D44 combo. LOL
I'll post a pic tonight.

vintage 033.jpg
 
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Ghetto Fab said:
I'm surprised that BFG came out with a 42" sticky.
Click to expand...
Have you seen the pre-production version? Cut your own....after a comp season, they sat the top 3 guys down and had them finalize to the current design. Pretty awesome.

BFG 42/20
Maxxis 42/17
Nitto 42/20
Milestar 42/20 and 42/17 (coming 2022)
Super Swamper SX 43/16.5, 43/17, 43/20 (also: Mega, TrXuS, Bogger, IROK)
Mickey Thompson 43/17
 
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woody said:
Have you seen the pre-production version? Cut your own....after a comp season, they sat the top 3 guys down and had them finalize to the current design. Pretty awesome.

BFG 42/20
Maxxis 42/17
Nitto 42/20
Milestar 42/20 and 42/17 (coming 2022)
Super Swamper 43/17
Mickey Thompson 43/17
Click to expand...
I had not heard that. The tread looks the same as the 39.
 
woody said:
Have you seen the pre-production version? Cut your own....after a comp season, they sat the top 3 guys down and had them finalize to the current design. Pretty awesome.

BFG 42/20
Maxxis 42/17
Nitto 42/20
Milestar 42/20 and 42/17 (coming 2022)
Super Swamper 43/17
Mickey Thompson 43/17
Click to expand...
You can get the tsl sticky on a 20 also
 
woody said:
Have you seen the pre-production version? Cut your own....after a comp season, they sat the top 3 guys down and had them finalize to the current design. Pretty awesome.

BFG 42/20
Maxxis 42/17
Nitto 42/20
Milestar 42/20 and 42/17 (coming 2022)
Super Swamper 43/17
Mickey Thompson 43/17
Click to expand...
I guess I should add to my previous statement a bit to explain it. I'm surprised that BFG came out with a 42" sticky, when they seemed stuck on 39" for the longest time, and all the reasons you mentioned, cost, niche market, etc... I'm guessing ultra4 racing played a part in that, tire development for racing and then the emergence of competitors with 42s, as well as the eventual uptick in rockcrawler popularity. I guess I'm curious if we'll see a 44" BFG sticky in 5-6yrs?

I know you know milestar people, have they mentioned anything on the list after the 42s get released?
 
Ghetto Fab said:
I guess I should add to my previous statement a bit to explain it. I'm surprised that BFG came out with a 42" sticky, when they seemed stuck on 39" for the longest time, and all the reasons you mentioned, cost, niche market, etc... I'm guessing ultra4 racing played a part in that, tire development for racing and then the emergence of competitors with 42s, as well as the eventual uptick in rockcrawler popularity. I guess I'm curious if we'll see a 44" BFG sticky in 5-6yrs?

I know you know milestar people, have they mentioned anything on the list after the 42s get released?
Click to expand...
You get into mold/machine size issues pretty quickly...from what I can remember from conversations with various manuf's, 42 about caps things. I know Milestar could not make a 42 at their old factory (Indonesia) but their new location in Vietnam can max out at 42.

But who knows....the market changes constantly....it depends on what customer demand is, and what manufacturing can make profitable.

Right now, rigs are designed around 42's and 45-50 degree steering. Considering many of these latest rigs are in the $100k range, it's a sizeable uphill battle for a tire manuf to offer a 46" sticky tire and expect a bunch of serious marketable rockcrawlers to magically redesign their rigs to make the tires work.

My 42's already rub all the links and the shock bodies. Barely, and only in certain situations, but it happens.
 
woody said:
and the 16.5 :)

Updated the list a bit....Interco has Boggers, TrXuS, IROK's, and the MEGA....wheels from 15"-24", heights up to 50"...

hmm....wonder what backspacing I'd need for some 24's and 50's....
Click to expand...
Hahaha 24s and 50s would be hilarious. I plan to run 43s on 20s eventually
 
I see this from a diff perspective perhaps...I think the larger tires were driven by certain niche markets. I.E. Top Truck Challenge... mickey thompson made big tires just for that. that same market really exploded the 2.5 and 5 ton axle world along with axle tech's. Even the mudder world exploited these tires/axles. But if you follow th mud world(i have some friend into it) you will see most have moved on from 2.5 ton axles to planetary axles, and moved to Ag tires(look at mountain havoc).. But if you look at the TTC has died, who is even using those tires, or even the mega swampers., or even building new buggies based on the 2.5t/axletech

I honestly dont see the crawler world moving beyond 40-43" tire game as it is a game of diminishing returns at the moment. Packaging, clearance, axle longevity, weight etc. all hit the perfect apex at that number it seems. If a part of the sport starts to find a new window out (werock, ultra4,baja, rec wheeling, etc) that can raise that number obtainably without sacraficing the rest, then I would say we will see the evolution continue.
 
pennsylvaniaboy said:
I see this from a diff perspective perhaps...I think the larger tires were driven by certain niche markets. I.E. Top Truck Challenge... mickey thompson made big tires just for that. that same market really exploded the 2.5 and 5 ton axle world along with axle tech's. Even the mudder world exploited these tires/axles. But if you follow th mud world(i have some friend into it) you will see most have moved on from 2.5 ton axles to planetary axles, and moved to Ag tires(look at mountain havoc).. But if you look at the TTC has died, who is even using those tires, or even the mega swampers., or even building new buggies based on the 2.5t/axletech

I honestly dont see the crawler world moving beyond 40-43" tire game as it is a game of diminishing returns at the moment. Packaging, clearance, axle longevity, weight etc. all hit the perfect apex at that number it seems. If a part of the sport starts to find a new window out (werock, ultra4,baja, rec wheeling, etc) that can raise that number obtainably without sacraficing the rest, then I would say we will see the evolution continue.
Click to expand...
I tend to agree. I don't see werock or ultra4 going bigger. Along with reasons already stated, bigger tires will force the COG higher which is counterproductive both for getting off camber and high speeds.
 
Micky Thompson debut'd their 44's at SEMA. I've wheeled with a couple people at SH running the Baja Boss tires and I'm personally not impressed. But the driver can play a part too.
www.tirereview.com

Mickey Thompson Unveils 42-, 44-in. Sizes for Baja Boss M/T Line

At this year’s SEMA Show in Las Vegas, Mickey Thompson Tires & Wheels unveiled the largest-ever sizes of its Baja Boss M/T line with 42- and 44-in, tire sizes. Available to consumers in mid-2023, the expanded sizes enable off-roaders to ride higher with more ground clearance and overcome rocky...
www.tirereview.com www.tirereview.com

Had a quick discussion this week on compounds...I know my Milestar 42's have a DOT compound and are working surprisingly well. Given the latest in tire technology with all of the manufacturers, it's likely the capability gap between DOT and sticky is closing, particularly when you consider price points.
 

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