Build Bent Fabrication Elite XL Trail Buggy

[vogelj]

The time has come to build a new buggy. I finished my last buggy in 2018, and it has been great. The technology and my wheeling has changed over the years, and I am ready for something new. My current buggy is a Liquid Iron Eliminator. It has been a good chassis, but overall it's too big for a trail car, and I want something with way better visibility.

Current Buggy
Liquid Iron Eliminator
5.3
TH400
Atlas 3.8
Dana 60 Front 5:13
Rear Steer 14 Bolt 5:13
14" ORI's
43" SXS
17" Trail Readys

 

[vogelj]

I picked up a Bent Fabrication Elite XL Chassis earlier in the year, and I finally got to start on the build. The goal for this build is simplicity, ease to work on, and better visibility. These are all things my last buggy lacked.

Buggy Plans:
Bent Fabrication Elite XL
JHF Portals 4:10 Gears w/ Spool Front & ARB Rear
5.3
TH400
Atlas 3.8
16" ORI Front / 18" ORI Rear
43" SXS
20" Rims (Still Deciding)

I got a start on the chassis. The frame rails are laid out, and the rock sliders, A & B pillars are attached. It should go together pretty fast. I will need to do some tweaking as I go, but it should work well.

This is where I am currently. I plan to continue to work on the buggy and get as much mocked up before I tear down my current buggy. I am going to Trail Hero in October, so I plan to tear it down after that, depending on how far I have made it. I am still waiting on portals, and I am not sure how long those will take.

 

[woody]

talk about starting from scratch

Sounds like a great combo!

 

[DirtSquirrel]

Very nice. Hit up Jake Boen (Boen Built) if youre still looking for portals. He had a complete set of Cs and outers for sale last week.

 

[vogelj]

Very nice. Hit up Jake Boen (Boen Built) if youre still looking for portals. He had a complete set of Cs and outers for sale last week.

I saw those! I have some on order with Jesse for his new boxes, using all Branik Shafts.

 

[chaplinfj60]

wow super cool ,

 

[vogelj]

I got back to work on the chassis. I had some problems getting it to fit the correct way. I tried a few different ways, and things were not coming together correctly. I made a quick call to Paul at Bent Fabrication, and he gave me some measurements to get it started. It seems to be going together smoothly now. I think these kits need at least a bottom fixture to get everything lined up correctly. Another couple of days and the chassis should be done. I should also have axles soon as well.

 

[chaplinfj60]

so if you can take the side bars out now because it will easier in and out all the time.

 

[woody]

so if you can take the side bars out now because it will easier in and out all the time.

True. And everyone I know who had a rock enter that gap and jam a steering wheel wishes they had kept them

I have never had an issue getting in/out of mine. But I'm a young 56yo

For 99% of trails, no biggie. Start to play really big and that bar is a good idea.

 

[vogelj]

True. And everyone I know who had a rock enter that gap and jam a steering wheel wishes they had kept them

I have never had an issue getting in/out of mine. But I'm a young 56yo

For 99% of trails, no biggie. Start to play really big and that bar is a good idea.

I cut out the door bars on my last buggy because the window was so small, and it got old after a long day of wheeling. However, I agree with Woody that it gets a little sketchy on bigger obstacles. I am going to try the doors as they are for now.

 

[DirtSquirrel]

I think he means to cut them out temporarily to build out the interior and for them to not be in the way. I hate my door bars too, but they are definitely needed.

 

[woody]

I think he means to cut them out temporarily to build out the interior and for them to not be in the way. I hate my door bars too, but they are definitely needed.

I will say, DO NOT tab out any skins until the interior is 100% complete. Those tabs hurt when you stuff your torso thru to work on the interior

 

[DirtSquirrel]

I will say, DO NOT tab out any skins until the interior is 100% complete. Those tabs hurt when you stuff your torso thru to work on the interior

Can confirm. Especially if you are a fluffy fella, like myself.

 

[vogelj]

I think he means to cut them out temporarily to build out the interior and for them to not be in the way. I hate my door bars too, but they are definitely needed.

I guess I didn't think about that. They are just tacked in place now to keep the chassis square. It might come out as I continue on the build.

 

[chaplinfj60]

True. And everyone I know who had a rock enter that gap and jam a steering wheel wishes they had kept them

I have never had an issue getting in/out of mine. But I'm a young 56yo

For 99% of trails, no biggie. Start to play really big and that bar is a good idea.

sorry i mean during build phase

 

[vogelj]

I am getting back on this after my trip to Trail Hero. While I was there, I was able to meet up with Jesse and pick up my portals. I went with his new boxes because I have zero interest in dealing with RCV. When I got back, my Krawlers also showed up!

 

[vogelj]

The chassis is finally coming together. I like the idea of these DIY chassis kits, but I don't think I would do another without at least minimal fixturing. Its to hard to make sure that everything is correct, and often you don't know its wrong until several steps down the road, and you have to redo it. I am ready to be done with this part to start mounting the drivetrain.

 

[Ghetto Fab]

I went with his new boxes because I have zero interest in dealing with RCV.

What's the deal? Do his new boxes not fit RCVs?

 

[woody]

What's the deal? Do his new boxes not fit RCVs?

The 50 degree new boxes either fit the two U-joint options or the D60-size 50 degree RCVS.

The earlier 45 degree boxes only fit RCV 3899's or RCV D10609's. I have 2+ years on my rear D10609 RCV's and while they are clicky, I've yet to have a failure (front or rear). I have swapped a boot or six tho, but have that process down to an hour.

I should probably swap them out as preventive maintenance....I'm bulk buying/reselling the 3899's anyways and have a dozen on the bench. Swapped the fronts out a year-ish ago, just cause I had some.

3899's are $400ea plus inners. D60 versions are $700ea plus inners. U-joint options are even more once you combine the u-joint, inner and outer shafts.

 

[Ghetto Fab]

Do the 3899s or 10609s physically fit in the box, but simply won't go to 50degress(I get that the joint is not a 50deg joint)? Or do those physically not fit in the new boxes? What makes a box 50deg or not? I thought that was all in the steering arms? Sorry for the thread derail. Chassis is looking good!

 

[vogelj]

Do the 3899s or 10609s physically fit in the box, but simply won't go to 50degress(I get that the joint is not a 50deg joint)? Or do those physically not fit in the new boxes? What makes a box 50deg or not? I thought that was all in the steering arms? Sorry for the thread derail. Chassis is looking good!

I am not sure. I will have to defer to Woody!

 

[vogelj]

I am planning out the suspension on my buggy. I got a bunch of numbers of a SHO buggy in a Kalif chassis, and I put them in the 4-link calculator. I am unsure if the portals through off the calculator, but I don't think this should work well based on everything I have read. Are there any hard rules I should look into when building the 4-Link?

 

[DirtSquirrel]

Can you increase you vertical separation at the axle? Its less than what is at the frame. Looks to be only 4.5". Rule for separation at the axle is 25% of your tire height, but thats damn near impossible most of time. Especially with portals id imagine. Can you increase to 7-8"? My new rig is in the 8-9" range, but im non-portal. The antisquat/dive on mine is in the low 20% and seems to work well so far.

Also there is a new version of the calculator which is much better. Ill send a link.

EDIT: 4 Link Calculator

 

[vogelj]

Can you increase you vertical separation at the axle? Its less than what is at the frame. Looks to be only 4.5". Rule for separation at the axle is 25% of your tire height, but thats damn near impossible most of time. Especially with portals id imagine. Can you increase to 7-8"? My new rig is in the 8-9" range, but im non-portal. The antisquat/dive on mine is in the low 20% and seems to work well so far.

Also there is a new version of the calculator which is much better. Ill send a link.

EDIT: 4 Link Calculator

Yes, I can add more separation at the axle end. I was running the numbers off the buggy I measured. It makes sense about the 25% rule. When I talked to Jesse when I bought the portals, he said they try for 8" of vertical separation. He said anything higher than that raises the roll center and makes packaging harder. Thanks for the updated link!

 

[woody]

Do the 3899s or 10609s physically fit in the box, but simply won't go to 50degress(I get that the joint is not a 50deg joint)? Or do those physically not fit in the new boxes? What makes a box 50deg or not? I thought that was all in the steering arms? Sorry for the thread derail. Chassis is looking good!

The 50 degree steering brackets are machined differently for the axles used, the 3899/D10609 will fit but the seal surface is recessed, so no means of sealing. The actual H1 boxes are identical.

There was a very early batch of D10609's that were 50 degree, but they didn't hold up. I know a few guys who broke CV's and later limited to 42/43 degrees and have had no issues since. I haven't had any CV breakage in 2+ years, but I'm easier on parts than most I get 50 degree for the comp guys, but the rest of us can back up

 

[Dirtbag1]

I have NO experience with portals, But just out of curiosity is there a short explanation of setting up portal axle links and non-portal axle links? I get the 25% of tire separation on non-portal axle but is it because of the portal on the axle that you don't need as much separation? Dose the portal offset essentially add to that separation? Sorry for the new guy question but this stuff just gets my wheels spinning. Thanks

 

[Ghetto Fab]

It all works the same. The axle still rotates around the center of the wheel, portal or not. I think the issue with separation has more to do with too high of a roll center and the fact that its difficult for the chassis to clear the upper links as everything has been moved up 4" already. It becomes a packaging issue.

 

[Dirtbag1]

It all works the same. The axle still rotates around the center of the wheel, portal or not. I think the issue with separation has more to do with too high of a roll center and the fact that its difficult for the chassis to clear the upper links as everything has been moved up 4" already. It becomes a packaging issue.

Gotcha!! Thanks for the info, Gives me something to think about on my current build. I went with adjustable link brackets on the upper mounts frame and top of axle so I can hopefully tune it in after i'm done. Also cuz I don't know what i'm doing. LOL Thanks Again!!

 

[Broski]

I no engineer, but I would think that portal axles create more leverage or twisting force( rotational leverage ) on the axle. Hence more separation need. JMHO
Agreed, it all comes down to packaging !

 

[Ghetto Fab]

Yeah, not really though. If you had a portal axle with the same final drive ratio as a straight axle, the forces would be the same reacting on the housing for a given torque input. Of course its easy to get into deep gearing with the portals.

The biggest difference is usually link placement. Usually, the lower links are pretty close to inline with the wheel centerline on a standard axle, whereas with the portals most I have seen are above the wheel centerline a good bit. This creates a fair amount of leverage around the lower link and more stress on the upper links. I don't think it affects the geometry too much though. As we lift vehicles, moving the suspension mounting points up on the axle tends to flatten out the geometry and with these buggies being so low now the link angles are well beyond flat.