PSC (or other high output brand) Power steering pump

Mace

Addicted Member
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Oct 20, 2010
191
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Specs,
FJ60 with a stock gearbox, 1.5" hydraulic ram, and a stock Saginaw pump. The box is ported and with 6-an lines to the ram assist. The sag pump has had the washers removed and the orifice drilled out Per the West Texas Off Road website.

Currently it does not seem to be providing the assist I feel it should. The box was rebuilt a couple years ago and appears to be just fine. I suspect that the pump is no longer making the pressure it used to. Wheeling in Sand Hollow maxed out the steering multiple times when I do not think it should have (I do have a front locker but it shouldn't be quite this bad IMHO).

Would a PSC or Howe (or???) be worth it? I've seen tests done where the PSC pump only put out 1200psi. The Stock pumps are not much different than that. Steering is not "slow" so I think the volume is fine. It just gets way harder to steer than I think is reasonable with a hydraulic assist system. I have not put a gauge on the pump to see what my current PSI is.

Ideas/thoughts?
 

woody

eternal noobie
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Oct 12, 2010
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Toquerville UT
There IS something to be said for the geometry in the system....the ram placement relative to the tie rod can put in a position/angle where it isn't effective.

What diameter ram? 1.5"? Age/manuf/etc? Running an inline filter/reservoir or just stock? Cooler? Possible the seals/internals of the ram are aged and allowing fluid to push past.

Heat is brutal on power steering, even if it's not overflowing.

https://www.amazon.com/Assault-Raci...&qid=1490279586&sr=8-3&keywords=inline+cooler

That's similar to the one I got from PSC, and I'll be looking for something similar for the 80 soon (even without ram assist) since it groans when hot.
 

Mace

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Oct 20, 2010
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Ram is essentially perfectly inline with the Tie rod.

1.5" diameter ram. New as of 2009 IIRC. Surplus center non rebuild-able. No inline filter, but there is a Aluminum reservoir that holds about a quart IIRC. I am running a cooler in front of the radiator.

It is possible that the ram is aged. But it has not really been stressed much in it's life. And it is not leaking externally. The max operating pressure is 3000 psi, and It's never even been close to that. I guess I'd be surprised if the ram went bad (but stranger things have happened). It's also possible that the box needs to be rebuilt as well, but I am not experiencing the same Issues when it needed to be rebuilt before. I rebuilt the box after it started to lose assist (no hydraulic assist at that time) when the fluid warmed up. It's not doing that now.

Steering doesn't groan. It just doesn't move.. It's nowhere close to the assist that I get with a single ended ram (full hydro) on my 40. It's not quite apples to apples but..

Looks like a standard pump is a p135 but a p185 is what PSC (and others) use for the output. The 185 has a lot more pressure and flow.

It seems to be a lot of guess work troubleshooting unless you know the pressure you are generating..
 
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POR

Active Member
Jan 30, 2017
35
The 1.5 rams don't provide a lot of "power" they seem to just take a lot of negative steering impact away. Up your ram to a 2.5 and throw a tg pump in it. You should be good. The tg's are same as psc I hear and are cheaper. Flush your system with synthetic fluid as well.
 

woody

eternal noobie
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Oct 12, 2010
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Toquerville UT
My understanding (from a PSC source) is TG pumps are made by PSC to TG specs.
 

Mace

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Oct 20, 2010
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The cruiser is more of a daily driver so I am not overly inclined to go to a 2.5" ram due to some potential delays for turning.
 

POR

Active Member
Jan 30, 2017
35
The cruiser is more of a daily driver so I am not overly inclined to go to a 2.5" ram due to some potential delays for turning.
The 2.5 don't have a delay like your thinking. The 1.5 has more of a delay than the 2.5's. Trail gear has their kit pretty dialed. I have the 1.5 on a Toyota and my steering has always been lacking in the power dept. I have the 2.5 on another of my yotas and it steers about as fast and about as powerfull as my double ended ram on my buggy.
 

Mace

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Oct 20, 2010
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I'm not really sure what you are referring to. Can you link the 2.5 tg ram? I can't find it.

From their site, the Toyota hydro assist is generally 1.5".

Why does the 1.5 have more of a delay than the 2.5?
 

POR

Active Member
Jan 30, 2017
35
I'm not really sure what you are referring to. Can you link the 2.5 tg ram? I can't find it.

From their site, the Toyota hydro assist is generally 1.5".

Why does the 1.5 have more of a delay than the 2.5?

Sorry it's a 2.0 ram look on tg's website they offer both rams. Your gonna want the 1650 pump to match the 2.0 ram.
The steer box turns faster than 1.5 ram, you can feel that when trying to turn fast.
 

Mace

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Oct 20, 2010
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So you boosted the pump to a 1600 psi unit as well. That makes sense.

I need to figure out what press my current pump is putting out.

There are pressure gauges in nice cases that you can buy, but wouldn't a 0 to 2000 psi gauge and a "t" with a hose work? With leftover parts I have around and an Amazon gauge I'd think that would give me enough information.
 

POR

Active Member
Jan 30, 2017
35
It's actually not psi, it's gpm so no a psi Guage is not gonna work. I tried the nodded stock pump years ago, they never seemed to work worth a shit. I run a tg 1450 pump on my 1.5 ram. I just had the same bitch as you.. until I did the 2.0 tg stuff. I'm really happy how that system works, 1 finger steering in the biggest rocks
 

Mace

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Oct 20, 2010
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There is a huge difference in force when you go from a 1.5 to 2.0 diameter ram
1.5" piston
1100 psi = 1943 ft lbs
1600 psi =2827 ft lbs

2" piston
1100 psi = 3455 ft lbs
1600 psi = 5026 ft lbs

Obviously the flow rate to keep the piston diameter fast needs to be bumped up too. I think the 1650 psa flows at about 5 or 6 gpm.
 

POR

Active Member
Jan 30, 2017
35
So I guess I'm confused on what your asking... do you want a way to test your system or are you looking to resolve your no power feel? So if you do test your system and it's in the "good" range of numbers are you going to do anything or just live with the no power feel?
 

Mace

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Oct 20, 2010
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There are three basic parts to my steering system. The pump, the steering box and the ram. I'm hoping to identify where the issue is. If it's the pump failing, the box bypassing or the ram bypassing. With the pressure gauge I can identify the amount of pressure produced by the pump, from the box to the ram, and possibly leakage through the ram.

If I can identify where the issue is, I can just replace that part. Instead of just replacing everything and hoping it works.

There is an issue, I just need to figure out where it is.. I am concerned about the number of less than stellar reviews about PSC's p pumps and was hoping someone had some recent successes with one.
 

POR

Active Member
Jan 30, 2017
35
Oh gotcha.. my thinking is if your ram isn't leaking it's probably good (I've never had a ram fail from age that wasn't leaking) now on that note, same can be said in my experience with steering boxes, usually the spit the lower seal when metal is washing around. The fact that you have a home modded pump tells me that's your problem. That's usually what I experience for problems like this. I had a buddy that ran a psc ppump and it was nothing going but problems, they even replaced it a few times.
 

matzell

Member
Jan 31, 2012
14
Jason,
I am running a "stock" PSC P-pump on my race car. I had one on my last one as well. I have not had a problem with one. (the resevoir was bent and leaking at KOH) When I ran hydro assist I had a 1.5" ram. Call and talk with Lance at PSC, he can get you what you need.
 

woody

eternal noobie
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Oct 12, 2010
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Toquerville UT
.....cept Lance no longer works for PSC :)
 

Mace

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Oct 20, 2010
191
46
Las Vegas
Thanks rob!
 

Mace

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Oct 20, 2010
191
46
Las Vegas
So the pump puts out 8 to 900 psi at idle and jump to 1400 when you blip the throttle. So to me, it sounds like there are problems elsewhere..
 
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